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04/02/02 14:05 |
Bill Kuebler |
Was the First Passenger
Pinetree scheme > ever applied to
the Phase 2 F-3A rebuild, or > did
the Phase 2 rebuild mark the end of the
> First scheme and the beginning of the Second > Passenger Pinetree scheme so to avoid
painting > a curve behind the
chicken wire screening? > For those who might not be familiar, I
believe by "First Pinetree
scheme" he refers to the version where the butter-knife shaped curve of the stripe went behind the forward-most porthole rather than around
the front of it. See pages 127 and
128 of Schrenk & Frey's Diesel Era book
for three photos showing this scheme. According to available evidence, this "first
Pinetree scheme" did not last
long at all, at most a few months. I
would say that it lasted until sometime around Spring 1947, or mid-Summer at the latest. Thus, the
scheme was modified--the stripe was
moved to wrap around the front of the
first porthole--before the Phase 2 units conversions occurred, but not long before. Whether or
not that was the reason for the paint
scheme modification is uncertain. There
appear to be just enough months between the two events to be cause for uncertainty. As for the Phase changes, again, page
128 of the Diesel Era book is
instructive. The photo of the 6502 set, taken in July 1948 (I believe that date is correct), shows the 6502A in Phase 2. I believe that the Phase
change of the 6502A from Phase 1 to 2
took place about the same time as the
Phase changes (1 to 2) of all the other sets, so this would have been no later than mid-Summer 1948. I
believe the change from 1 to 2 took
place in late 1947, but early 1948 at
the latest. That jibes with all my other photo evidence, too, if memory serves. There were a number of changes occurring
to the industry's F-unit fleets,
including NP's, during those years and
months. EMD was really making several significant improvements to their F-units, and they
all occurred fairly close together,
so if this seems like a jumble of changes,
that's because it is. I'm
still certain that the change in NP's passenger F-3As to Phase 3 (louvres instead of the chicken
wire between portholes) took place
well before the Loewy scheme, but not
long after the acquisition of the first F-7As. There was definitely a short period of overlap when
the NP had F-5As at the same time the
F-3A in the same set was in the Phase 2
config. See pages 131 and 132 of Diesel Era for an example of this, the 6505 set at Marshall. It also seems reasonable that the
acquisition of the newer models,
especially the F-7, is what caused the NP to change older units, particularly the change to Phase 3. As one would expect, the NP looked at how these
various newer units performed and
then tried to modify the older ones
accordingly. What is a big mystery is why the freight F-3As were left in their original configuration.
That one has stumped every NP vet
I've asked about it. I have not yet
exhausted my F-unit photo collection (yes, I
have a pic of every NP F-unit, including the various configs of the ones changed), but evidence thus
far suggests the following summary
for passenger units: 1/47 Phase 1
F-3As and A-B-B sets. Original Pinetree
scheme. Spring-Summer 47:
Pinetree scheme modified, stripe moved
forward to wrap around front porthole. Late 1947 or early 1948: Change from Phase 1 to 2 on F-3As. 10/48: Acquisition of F-5As 6503C-6506C,
which replaced the middle F-3B unit
in each respective set. Sets 6503-06 then
became A-B-A sets. 6500-02 sets remained in A-B-B config. 4/49: 6501-02 sets to A-B-A config by
replacing the third unit (F-3B) with
F-7As. Those third units became 6507B and
6508B, respectively. 9/49:
Ditto above for 6500 set, except the middle unit was replaced rather than the third unit. Of
course, the original third unit moved
up to be the now second unit. Unit 6500B
became 6509B. Late 1949,
possibly a little later: F-3As converted to Phase 3 config. I have a picture of the 6505 set in 8/49 that shows the F-3A in Phase 2 config, but
another view of the same set believed
to be taken several months later showing
the same unit in Phase 3 config. I hate to base a conclusion on only one set, but NP's practices were
relatively standardized in the F-unit
passenger fleet of those years. There
were notable exceptions to this standardization in later years, such as units 6551B-6553B, but their conversions back to passenger service in
1959, 60, and 62, respectively,
account for the exceptions, being late in the game. 3/53 First set
painted in Loewy scheme: 6506 set. Dark green slogan on A-unit flanks changed to white within weeks, if not days. The only louvre change of any kind to a unit after the
Loewy scheme was adopted, that I know
of, was the 6501B. Oddly, its louvre
on one side only (!) was changed back to a middle porthole sometime in the early 1960s, while the louvre on the opposite side remained in place. No
explanation for that oddity. No wreck
that I know of, or the like.
F-units were easy to change around. Their side walls were just these small metal panels mounted in
framework that included wooden (!)
members. Yes, part of the F-unit carbody
framework was wood. Paint
scheme, passenger, F3, F5, F7, Pine Tree, Loewy, 1940s, 1947, 1948 Compiler
C Frissell |
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11/26/02 18:12 |
John Moore |
NP F units only carried 3
paint schemes during their service on NP. Two of them were the passenger schemes of two toned green. No FTs
ever carried this scheme, only the
black and yellow freight scheme which was the third paint scheme. There is a reference to an oft
debated solid green scheme with a pine
tree nose. This was referred to as the NP-F4 scheme. No FT was known
to have carried this scheme. Within the freight schemes there were 5
variations referred to as the NP-F1
thru NP-F5. All had variation in lettering or pine trees. Only the F4
was reputed to have not been black as
stated earlier. This may have been a very
short lived experiment. As
delivered in the NP-F1 scheme they would have been solid black, with
wide solid yellow stripes on the
sides of the A and B units just above the side sill and edged with 3 inch red border stripes. The nose pine tree would have been
longer than the normal with the lowest
branch extending beyond the cab steps differing in length from the
later F-3 and 7s which terminated in
front of the cab steps. This scheme was applied to FTs in 2/44 and in 1/45. No other units carried this scheme
other than FTs. The B unit carried no lettering or numbers
as the draw bar equipped AB was
considered as one unit. The
reflectorized nose number boards were removed in 1950 when they were renumbered into the 5400 series. In 1960
they got twin sealed beam lights in
the nose doors and the seven bulb upper light was replaced with
an oscillating light. In the 1950s the FT were repainted into
the same freight scheme as the F-3s
with the shorter pine tree wings.
Some other features for the FTs:
All had 62:15 gearing for 65MPH
Dynamic brakes Steam end
connections at both ends 24RL air
brake schedule Leslie Supertyfon
horn Vapor CFK-4225-2A steam
generator also the FTB unit Seven
bulb headlight and later a 250 W. Pyle-National single bulb applied to the nose
9 1/2 inch reflector numbers applied to the nose on 11 inch plates
attached to the nose door. Side number boards were the norm as
delivered and later changed to the angle
number boards on the nose.
Presence of the steam generators gave them the ability to pinch hit
in passenger service, but I have no
pictures of them in passenger service or
indications of any regular use in such. Two old articles in magazines have extensive details on paint
and renumbering. Prototype Modeler
Sept. Oct. 1982, titled Northern Pacific Paint Diesel Schemes, and Model Railroader Nov. 1993
titled Northern Pacific F Units. A
number of good books exist for the diesel rosters with color photos
and data and generally can be found
in most major railroad book dealers adds and at shows for around $40 to $50. I currently have a set of the IM FTs in GN in the as
delivered configuration and they are
excellent units. I am awaiting my NP units. I do not know if these will feature the steam generators
since my GN units did not and I have
to add them. However detailing is exquisite and delicate and I only
have to add a few details such as
windshield wipers. MU hoses, and the steam
generator to have a unit that outshines most the Brass renditions I
have seen of the FTs. Pulling power
equals or exceeds Kato's F units. In short a great N scale unit and I expect the NP version to be excellent.
Finally something in N scale in NP
that I don't have to paint and decal and long overdue. FT,
details, history, steam generators, freight, passenger Compiler
C Frissell |